The Damage of Conversion Therapy (Part 2)

In the second half of their interview with John Paulk, Joe and Rya continue to explore the complexities of his journey out of the ex-gay movement. Rya shares her experience attending a Love Won Out conference as a closeted trans woman in the '90s, while John opens up about the "dirty little secret" within the ex-gay community—that no one actually changes. They discuss the evolving attitudes within the church, with even his son's Campus Crusade group accepting LGBTQ individuals. John reflects on whether being born gay matters, concluding that God’s love is all that counts. He also addresses how the family dynamics have changed between him and his two sons as well as him and his ex-wife.